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Seventeen Dead in Afghan Taliban Clashes
Thu Oct 2, 9:27 AM ET
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - At least 17 people have been killed in clashes involving Afghan government soldiers, Taliban guerrillas and U.S.-led forces in southern Afghanistan, officials said on Thursday.
Ten government soldiers and two children were killed on Wednesday night when 16 Taliban guerrillas in two vehicles attacked a vehicle carrying the soldiers in the Nish area, some 60 km (37 miles) north of Kandahar, General Atta Mohammad, a government commander in the town told Reuters.
He said one Taliban fighter was killed and one wounded in the clash in which one of their vehicles was burned. Mohammad said Afghan troops and 12 soldiers from the U.S.-led force were pursuing the attackers and two suspects had been detained.
Another official said at least four suspected Taliban guerrillas were killed in the Nish area on Wednesday when helicopter gunships from the U.S.-led force fired at their vehicle.
The official from the local branch of the foreign ministry in Spin Boldak, a town close to the Pakistani border, said the guerrillas had been returning from neighboring Uruzgan province a day after clashes with Afghan troops there.
"They (Taliban) attacked several Afghan forces' vehicles and looted local government commanders," the official said, without giving further details.
More than 300 people have been killed in violence since early August, the bloodiest period since the fall of the Taliban late in 2001. The casualties include Afghan civilians, aid workers and soldiers as well as many suspected militants.
A U.S.-led force of 11,500 is hunting remnants of the Taliban and the al Qaeda network it once sheltered. (reporting by Mohammad Ismail Sameen in Kandahar and Saeed Ali Achakzai in Spin Boldak)
Two Peacekeepers Killed in Afghanistan
Thu Oct 2, 1:28 PM ET By DANIEL COONEY, Associated Press Writer
KABUL, Afghanistan - A land mine exploded under a vehicle carrying Canadian peacekeepers in the Afghan capital Thursday, killing two of them and wounding three.
The explosion took place at about 1:30 p.m. as the car was on a routine patrol, said Maj. Kevin Arata, a spokesman for the International Security Assistance Force, which is charged with maintaining security in Kabul.
It was not clear whether the explosion was caused by an old land mine, or one laid recently in an effort to target international peacekeepers. ISAF officials declined to reveal the location of the explosion but said it was in an area that is regularly patrolled.
Arata would not identify the victims, but Canadian Deputy Prime Minister John Manley confirmed that the dead and injured were all Canadian.
"It looks like their vehicle struck an explosive device a few kilometers outside the camp," Manley told The Associated Press in Toronto.
Canada's Defense Minister John McCallum told Parliament in Ottawa that "even though we knew that our soldiers were in harm's way, it does not lessen our shock."
The ISAF said the condition of the injured peacekeepers was not believed to be life threatening.
The government identified the dead soldiers as Sgt. Robert Alan Short and Cpl. Robbie Christopher Beerenfenger. The injured were Master Cpl. Jason Cory Hamilton, Cpl. Cameron Lee Laidlaw and Cpl. Thomas Stirling. All were members of Royal Canadian Regiment, 3rd Battalion, based in Petawawa, Ontario.
Afghanistan is among the most heavily mined countries in the world. A German peacekeeper was killed and another wounded in May when their vehicle ran over a land mine apparently left over from decades of war.
Insurgents, believed to be a mix of Taliban rebels, al-Qaida fighters and supporters of renegade warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar have been intensifying attacks on government forces and troops from the U.S.-led coalition in recent months. Peacekeepers have also been targeted.
In June, ISAF suffered its worst-ever hostile casualties when a suicide bomber driving an explosives-laden taxi killed four German peacekeepers and wounded 29 others near the main base in Kabul.
Most recently, assailants on Sept. 11 fired rockets at two bases housing international peacekeepers in the Afghan capital, slightly injuring a Canadian worker.
Four Canadian soldiers died last year in Afghanistan when a U.S. fighter jet mistakenly bombed their position during a live-fire training exercise near Kandahar.
Canadian Defense Minister John McCallum warned before the force was deployed in August that Canadians could be killed on the risky mission.
More than 60 Spanish peacekeepers died in May in a plane crash as they returned home after completing their tour of duty in the war-shattered Afghan capital.
NATO took control of the 5,000-strong ISAF force in August and is considering expanding it to regions outside of Kabul. Canadian soldiers make up the largest contingent of the peacekeeping force, with nearly 2,000 soldiers.
Although the plans remain confidential, officials at NATO headquarters in Brussels said they could involve 2,000 to 10,000 more peacekeepers fanning out to major provincial cities.
In addition to the peacekeepers, there are some 11,500 U.S.-led coalition troops in Afghanistan focused on hunting down the Taliban and remnants of al-Qaida.
12 al-Qaeda suspects killed in gunfight with Pakistan troops
Thursday October 2, 8:01 PM AFP
Twelve al-Qaeda suspects were killed in a gun battle with Pakistani troops during a raid on a camp in the tribal district of South Waziristan bordering Afghanistan.
At least 10 other militants were captured, including four al-Qaeda and six Taliban suspects, military officials said Thursday.
Pakistani military commanders took journalists to the site of the operation to show them the bodies of four men described as "foreign" al-Qaeda suspects.
Another eight suspected al-Qaeda died in the clash, the military officials said.
Journalists were also shown the suspected al-Qaeda prisoners, who were stripped to the waist and blindfolded.
The gunfight broke out after troops surrounded what they called an al-Qaeda base some five kilometers (three miles) from the porous border with Afghanistan in South Waziristan tribal agency, Major General Faisal Alavi said.
"By first light we had surrounded the camp. We asked them to surrender. They did not surrender. They opened fire," Alavi, special forces commander in charge of operation, told AFP.
The shootout raged from dawn until after 11:00 am.
"We raided a camp identified as an al-Qaeda camp. Until (11:00 am) they had not surrendered, we were still fighting it out."
The camp had been identified on Wednesday by Pakistani intelligence agencies, he said. It was four to five kilometers from the town of Angoor Adda, in South Waziristan.
Before the shooting broke out, women and children had come out from one of the houses in the camp. Their nationalities were unclear but the Pakistani officers said they were foreigners.
"From what the women and children told us, they are foreigners," Alavi said.
The Pakistani troops had urged women and children to surrender first.
"They came out of one house, but from the rest of the houses came firing. We took them on," Alavi said.
The operation involved attack helicopters and ground troops.
Hundreds of al-Qaeda fugitives have taken refuge in Angoor Adda since late 2001, according to local human rights activists.
Afghan officials have repeatedly pointed to South Waziristan as the source of attacks by resurgent Taliban fighters.
The deeply conservative tribal district faces southeastern Afghanistan's Paktika province, which has borne the brunt of an upsurge in violence by the regrouped Taliban.
The Afghan district of Barmal, which has been under Taliban control for the past six weeks, lies 15 kilometers from the border with South Waziristan.
South Waziristan is also facing the Afghan region of Shkin, home of the most attacked US base in Afghanistan.
There was "a great possibility" that the al-Qaeda suspects were the people involved in attacks that killed a US soldier in Shkin on Monday, military spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan told reporters in Angoor Adda.
"There are all possibilities some of these people might have been involved in these actions. I would say there is a great possibility."
He said the suspects had crossed from Shkin area.
"When these people escaped (Shkin area) they came and took refuge in this area. They were trapped by our people.
"Once their presence was confirmed we launched an operation, we went in this morning," Sultan said.
He said he could not say for sure if they were al-Qaeda fugitives but they were clearly "foreign elements".
US warplanes have dropped bombs near Angoor Adda in recent months in pursuit of Taliban fighters fleeing back into Pakistan after attacking US troops.
Afghanistan Holds Five Suspected Al-Qaeda Operatives, AFP Says
Oct. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Afghan security forces arrested five suspected al-Qaeda operatives sent to the country to carry out attacks on government buildings and forces of the U.S.-led coalition, Agence France-Presse said citing state-run television.
The group arrested yesterday included four Afghan nationals and one non-Afghan, AFP said citing the television report broadcast in the Afghan capital, Kabul. It didn't say where the arrests took place.
The suspects came from Pakistan where they were trained in a camp operated by the al-Qaeda terrorist network, AFP cited an unidentified Afghan intelligence official as saying yesterday. The fifth detainee is a Pakistani al-Qaeda member, he said.
Afghanistan has called on Pakistan to do more to stop fighters from the ousted Taliban regime and al-Qaeda supporters from crossing into Afghan territory to carry out attacks. Yesterday's arrests coincided with a Pakistani army operation against al-Qaeda fugitives in the northwestern tribal region bordering Afghanistan. Soldiers killed eight al-Qaeda suspects and arrested 18, the Pakistani army said.
Afghanistan to attend OIC after long absence
KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Afghanistan will attend the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) summit in Malaysia this month after missing the last two meetings, an official said Thursday.
"We are hopeful that the OIC summit will be able to achieve some important things, we are happy to be back," Afghanistan's ambassador Amanullah Jayhoon told the official Bernama news agency.
The war-shattered country, one of the founding members of the 57-nation OIC, did not attend the Tehran summit in 1997 or the Doha summit in 2000.
Afghanistan's seat was left vacant following the fall of then-president Burhanuddin Rabbani's government to the hardline Taliban regime in September 1996, which in turn fell to US-led forces in December 2001.
It remains unclear whether Iraq, which has also undergone a US invasion, will attend the summit, which is to be held in Malaysia's administrative capital of Putrajaya, south of Kuala Lumpur, on October 16-18.
Malaysia initially opposed the participation of Iraq's US-appointed governing council on the grounds that the country was still under occupation, but Foreign Minister Syed Hamid indicated at the weekend that council chief Ahmed Chalabi may attend.
"Iraq has requested that it wants to come. We just have to be informed who is to represent the country," he said.
The Afghan ambassador did not indicate whether his country would be represented by President Hamid Karzai.
UN sends team to Afghanistan in late October
UNITED NATIONS, Oct 1 (AFP) - A UN Security Council team is heading to Afghanistan in late October to look at security issues, UN officials said Wednesday.
The team, scheduled to be in the region from October 31 to November 8, will also visit the Pakistani capital "for briefings and consultations," according to a UN statement.
Several ambassadors have announced their intention to go on the visit, which includes stops in Kabul, Herat, Kandahar and Mazar-i-Sharif.
The team's official goal is to "observe the operation of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, to discuss way to improve the security situation, and to expand the authority of the Afghan Transitional Administration through the country."
The team is also keen to "underscore the international community's unwavering commitment to the peace and reconstruction process in Afghanistan," as well as to "promote further international and regional support to this end."
Women Fare Better in Afghan Constitution
Thu Oct 2,10:08 PM ET By DANIEL COONEY, Associated Press Writer
KABUL, Afghanistan - Hoping to end decades of repression against women in this country, a proposed Afghan constitution to be released soon enshrines equal rights for all and bans forced marriages, bridal dowries, and other forms of discrimination, officials said Thursday.
The draft constitution guarantees women at least one seat from each of the 32 provinces on the wholesi jirga, the national parliament, and a minimum of 25 seats in the mushran jirga, the senate, said Fatima Gailani, a member of the Constitutional Review Commission. The total number of seats in each assembly has not yet been decided.
"Women will no longer be treated like animals in this country," said Shukria Barakzai, another member said.
The draft document says the government must provide women with education and health care not only equal to men, but that additional provisions must be written to care for pregnant women and educate widows whose husbands were killed during the last two decades of war.
President Hamid Karzai is expected to make public the draft constitution in the next week. A 10-day meeting of a 500-member loya jirga, or grand council, is to convene in December to debate and ratify the document.
Implementing a constitution is crucial for Afghanistan as it lays the foundations for its first democratic elections in decades, scheduled for June 2004.
The constitution comes nearly two years after U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban regime, which banned women from working and barred girls from school.
Many Afghans continue to adhere to the ultraconservative views practiced by the Taliban, and implementation of the constitution is expected to take years, especially in rural areas ruled by warlords and where the government has little authority.
"This is a first step forward for women's rights," Gailani said. But "there won't be any immediate change in the countryside for women. It will take time. But perhaps in the cities things will change if the government takes it seriously."
A team of 35 Afghans — including seven women — have been working for the past 11 months to draw up the new constitution. The process has included consulting 150,000 members of the public in cities and rural areas.
Gailani said it was sometimes intimidating explaining the importance of women's rights to villagers.
"We'd sit in mosques and have cold-eyed young Taliban (students) demanding answers about things. But they calmed down when we explained how women's rights are part of Islam," she said.
The draft constitution, as well as outlining women's rights, also declares Afghanistan a Muslim state but stops short of imposing Islamic Shariah law. Under Shariah, the hard-line Taliban ordered men to grow their beards long and pray five times a day, and carried out public executions and amputations for a range of crimes.
Women's rights and Shariah law have been the most hotly debated on the constitutional commission, those involved have said.
"No other Islamic country has a constitution that is so liberating for women," said Gailani, who used to be a London-based spokeswoman for the Afghan Mujahedeen rebels, who battled Soviet occupying forces in the 1980s. "Men and women are equal. In Afghanistan's history, this is totally new."
Women have long been discriminated against in this conservative Islamic society. Education levels and health care for women are often less than those for men. Fathers ask for payment from other families in exchange for allowing their daughters to marry. The bride is often not given a choice.
Afghanistan's proposed constitution to enshrine women's rights after decades of repression
DANIEL COONEY, Associated Press Writer Thursday, October 2, 2003
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Hoping to end decades of repression against women in this country, a proposed Afghan constitution to be released soon enshrines equal rights for all and bans forced marriages, bridal dowries, and other forms of discrimination, officials said Thursday.
The draft constitution guarantees women at least one seat from each of the 32 provinces on the wholesi jirga, the national parliament, and a minimum of 25 seats in the mushran jirga, the senate, said Fatima Gailani, a member of the Constitutional Review Commission. The total number of seats in each assembly has not yet been decided.
"Women will no longer be treated like animals in this country," said Shukria Barakzai, another member said.
The draft document says the government must provide women with education and health care not only equal to men, but that additional provisions must be written to care for pregnant women and educate widows whose husbands were killed during the last two decades of war.
President Hamid Karzai is expected to make public the draft constitution in the next week. A 10-day meeting of a 500-member loya jirga, or grand council, is to convene in December to debate and ratify the document.
Implementing a constitution is crucial for Afghanistan as it lays the foundations for its first democratic elections in decades, scheduled for June 2004.
The constitution comes nearly two years after U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban regime, which banned women from working and barred girls from school.
Many Afghans continue to adhere to the ultraconservative views practiced by the Taliban, and implementation of the constitution is expected to take years, especially in rural areas ruled by warlords and where the government has little authority.
"This is a first step forward for women's rights," Gailani said. But "there won't be any immediate change in the countryside for women. It will take time. But perhaps in the cities things will change if the government takes it seriously."
A team of 35 Afghans -- including seven women -- have been working for the past 11 months to draw up the new constitution. The process has included consulting 150,000 members of the public in cities and rural areas.
Gailani said it was sometimes intimidating explaining the importance of women's rights to villagers.
"We'd sit in mosques and have cold-eyed young Taliban (students) demanding answers about things. But they calmed down when we explained how women's rights are part of Islam," she said.
The draft constitution, as well as outlining women's rights, also declares Afghanistan a Muslim state but stops short of imposing Islamic Shariah law. Under Shariah, the hard-line Taliban ordered men to grow their beards long and pray five times a day, and carried out public executions and amputations for a range of crimes.
Women's rights and Shariah law have been the most hotly debated on the constitutional commission, those involved have said.
"No other Islamic country has a constitution that is so liberating for women," said Gailani, who used to be a London-based spokeswoman for the Afghan Mujahedeen rebels, who battled Soviet occupying forces in the 1980s. "Men and women are equal. In Afghanistan's history, this is totally new."
Women have long been discriminated against in this conservative Islamic society. Education levels and health care for women are often less than those for men. Fathers ask for payment from other families in exchange for allowing their daughters to marry. The bride is often not given a choice.
UNICEF celebrates Afghanistan's "million girl mark"
Source: UNICEF 2 Oct 2003
But the world cannot afford to lose interest now Bellamy says
KABUL/GENEVA/NEW YORK, 2 October 2003 - UNICEF said today the entrance of more than 1 million girls into the Afghan school system since the fall of the Taliban is "a testament to the courage and wisdom of the Afghan people, and the generosity of the international community."
Speaking from Almaty just days before her third visit to Afghanistan since 2001, UNICEF Executive Director Carol Bellamy said that she hopes to underscore progress made in Afghanistan over the past 20 months, particularly for children and women.
"To think that a million girls have returned to school, and that the parents of a million girls have encouraged them to do so is stunning," said Bellamy. "It's an incredible feat in a country plagued by hunger, poverty, poor health, and continuing instability."
"But on top of that it's now safer for a woman to give birth in Afghanistan than at any time over the previous 20 years. We have the first real investment in schools since 1975, when the last school was built. And millions of children are being regularly vaccinated against killer diseases such as measles and polio."
[Under the Taliban, girls were forbidden from attending school, and health workers were often obstructed from reaching newborn babies and young mothers by official policies that enforced female seclusion.]
During her three-day visit Bellamy will tour the country's largest maternity hospital, a girls' school, an income-generation project for women, a community water point and Afghanistan's first cold-storage facility for vaccines. The UNICEF chief will also address a seminar of religious leaders in Kabul.
She will use the opportunity to remind the international community of its commitments in areas such as education and health, and will meet with senior members of the Afghan Government to hear first hand of progress made for children and women and to listen to a list of needs that remain unmet.
"The emergence of new crises in countries such as Iraq risks diverting resources from Afghanistan at a critical time," said Bellamy. "I hope that my visit will remind the international community of the promises it made to the women and children of Afghanistan nearly two years ago. And that given time the commitment of aid produces palpable achievements - like a million literate future mothers."
Bellamy will visit Afghanistan from 5-7 October.
Some facts:
- More than 4 million children are now enrolled in school
- 12 million children have been immunized against polio and 16 million against measles since 2002
- 700,000 women have been vaccinated against tetanus
- One in five Afghan children will die before their fifth birthday
- Nearly half of all schools are without an adequate water supply
- An estimated 8,000 children are in need of rehabilitation after serving in fighting forces
- Afghanistan recorded the highest ever recorded maternal mortality ratio in the world (2002).
Canadian soldier supplies Kabul orphanage
Last Updated Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:23:27 CBC Online
KABUL,AFGHANISTAN - A Canadian soldier deployed in Afghanistan has arranged to have toys, clothes and school supplies sent from Canada to an orphanage for 1,200 children in Kabul.
Russell Storring, who writes a column for CBC News Online, has spearheaded a project he and fellow soldiers call Project Mercury Hope.
Storring left Canada for Afghanistan in July to be part of the Canadian peacekeeping mission called Operation Athena. Project Mercury Hope is being co-ordinated in Canada by Storring's mother, Heather Atkins, president of the Royal Canadian Legion in Tamworth, Ont.
Air Canada has agreed to fly supplies free of charge to a drop-off point in Europe, for redistribution to Kabul. Storring and his mother have also received donations from Staples Hardware and are asking for donations from other companies.
So far, 26 boxes of children's supplies have been collected from across Canada.
In one of his first columns for CBC News Online, Storring wrote:
"The children bother me the most. They are dirty, ill-clothed, and hungry – yet they smile. I try to think of what they could possibly have to smile about, and I come up empty. Their lives are a struggle for survival. I think, how much we take for granted, how lucky we are....
"Next time I called home, I talked of how my friends and I have dubbed a project Operation Mercury. It is our mission to supply an orphanage for more than 1,200 children with clothes, toys and school supplies."
Storring and some of his friends are spending their own money on supplies for the orphanage.
Pakistan Wants Close Ties With Afghanistan: Governor
PESHAWAR, Pakistan: Oct 01 (PNS) - NWFP Governor Lt. Gen (Retd) Syed Iftikhar Hussain Shah on Tuesday formally inaugurated the newly established girls Degree college at Sadda in Kurram Agency, which is third degree college for girls opened in FATA during the last two months period.
The other two has been established in Bajaur and North Waziristan agencies. The Governor as a mark unveiled the memorial plaque and afterward went round various sections of the college including class rooms and computer labs. The Governor on this occasion was informed that the project has been completed at a total cost of Rs. 25.737 million and also includes college building besides a hostel to accommodate 72 girls students with in vicinity of the college. The Governor also met the students during his visit to the classrooms and talked to them freely. They on this occasion informed the Governor of their problems including shortage of staff and lab equipments and transport facility. The Governor issued on the spot orders for immediate posting of the relevant staff and also directed the Political Agent to remove the transport problem of the day scholar student through local arrangements.
The Governor urged the students to divert their attention to theirs studies, saying now they have a college at their doorstep therefore they should fully avail the facilities. Similarly, he said they should also persuade their other colleagues to take benefit of the facility.
Later the Governor also laid the foundation stone of the building for Public School at Sadda, being constructed at the cost of Rs. 28 million, also having a hostel for 50 students. On a query from the Governor, he was assured that construction work would be completed by the June next year. He directed that with the completion of the ground floor, the school should be commissioned.
Later while addressing a representative tribal jirga of elders o Kurram Agency the Governor Syed Iftikhar hussain Shah said that the govt is committed to the speedy development of the tribal areas keeping its backwardness spread over a period of more than one century. The credit of this accelerated development process, he added goes to President General Pervez Musharraf who has not only issued clear directives in this regards but has also ensured constant flow of resources required for the purpose. In fact by developing the tribal area we are not obliging the tribesmen but delivering them their due rights, he remarked,saying that the present Govt has raised the FATA development budget many fold which is about Rs. Three billion uring the current year and it is a record allocation even in the entire history of the tribal areas.
Appreciating the sacrifices and the spirit of patriotism of the tribesmen the Governor said that the tribesmen had demonstrated their spiritual attachment with Pakistan in every need of hour. He in this connection referred to the role played by the tribesmen during Kashmir Jihad, Indian aggression and Afghanistan imbroglio saying that on all these occasions the tribesmen have proved their loyality to Pakistan. In the recent years, he added when some unwanted alien elemant tried to enter Pakistan through the tribal areas in order to fulfill their own agendas at the cost of our security and sovereignty, the tribesmen extended their wholehearted cooperation to the Govt. to put a stop to such practice. He reiterated the Govt firm resolve not to allow any foreigner to use our soil for any subversive or terrorist act.
Regarding Afghanistan the Governor said with that country we enjoy very cordial and close relation and want to further strengthen these ties. Peace in Afghanistan he said is in our interest as well as in the interest of the tribal area and we would continue to strive to facilitate the Afghan Govt in achieving the task. The Governor said that we want to enhance trade relations with Afghanistan saying that all preparations are being made to provide necessary infrastructure for the purpose. He in this connection said that decision has already been made to federalize the Islamabad Kohat Thall Parachinar road to provide an alternate trade rout with Afghanistan up to central Asia. This trade rout, he added would greatly benefit the people of Sadda and Parachinar particularly as these area would become the hub of trade activities.
Taking about the development of the Agency the Governor said that beside provision of required facilities to the tribal populace the Government is also striving to strengthen the agricultural base particularly in the Kurram Agency where the climatic conditions are highly conducing for agricultural development. He especially mentioned the tea and olive cultivation saying that with the introduction of these crash crops we could earn more benefits.
The Governor said that besides ADP various special development programmes have also been launched for the uplift of the tribal areas and rehabilitation of the social services delivery system. He in this connection referred to certain projects launched by the US, Norway and Japan, saying that such projects would benefit the tribal people in the communication and education sectors. The Governor said that the govt has chalked out a plan to construct 12 small dams in FATA and three out of them would be constructed in Kurram Agency, costing more than 200 million rupees. He announced that during the current financial year 10 villages would be electrified and 40 kilometers link roads would be constructed besides double increase in the number of existing primary schools in FR Kurram.
The Governor also assured the jirga that all their other genuine problems would be solved and in this connection the relevant quarters would be approached for their active consideration.
Earlier MNAs Haji Munir Khan and Syed Javaid Hussain in their speeches and welcome address highlighted the problems and development requirements of their respective areas. Tribal elders presented traditional gifts to the Governor on this occasion.
Fahim told to handover army
Aljazeera + Agencies 10/01/2003
The commander of Afghanistan's largest private army - and the biggest threat to Hamid Karzai's leadership - has been told by the US to hand over his men.
The Americans, anxious to build up the war-torn country's defences, also want General Muhammad Fahim, the defence minister and vice president to deploy his 100,000-strong army along the Pakistan border in the battle to quell the Taliban resurgence.
The US is understood to have plans to turn General Fahim's militia into the national Afghan Army which in turn will give the US-backed interim leader Hamid Karzai more authority and a stronger grip on power.
Until then, Afghanistan's presidential elections due in June 2004 are likely to be delayed. Afghan expert and political analyst Sayyid Hishmat Allah told Aljazeera.net that the reason for the probable delay in voting was that Karzai's winning the presidency could not yet be guaranteed.
"He is not going to push for elections until Kabul is demilitarised - ie Defence Secretary Muhammad Fahim's troops removed," said Hishmat Allah on Wednesday. Hishmat Allah also believes that the US plan to turn Fahim's army into the National Army and deploy it on the Pakistan border is already underway.
"With Fahim's troops out of the capital, Karzai's grip on the presidency will strengthen. Any demilitarisation will be welcomed by the Pashtun nationalists as well as securalists," added Hishmat Allah. Rumsfeld and Karzai hope to lessen Fahim's influence in Kabul
The move comes after the near total failure of recruiting an Afghan National Army since the conventional war ended almost two years ago.A large number of the US-trained Afghan recruits have gone AWOL with their new weapons.
Tensions are already high at border town Spin Boldak after Afghan troops arrested three Pakistani soldiers last week. Pakistan responded by deploying thousands of troops and heavy artillery on the border.
During his visit to Canada on Tuesday, interim President Hamid Karzai said he could not rule out postponing his country's presidential election, currently scheduled for June 2004.
In a television interview with the Canadian Brodcasting Corporation, Karzai said "if we fail for whatever reason [to hold the June 2004 election] … we should go to the Afghan people and say … give us another month or two."
Although Karzai is confident the Grand Council will ratify the constitution in December, he highlights technical difficulties for any delay in what will be presidential rather than parliamentary elections. "We don't have a voters list. We don't have the mechanisms in place. We don't have lots of other things", the interim president said.
Loyalties cloud Afghanistan's defense shakeup
The Chicago Tribune 10/01/2003 By Vanessa Gezari
Ethnic diversity is goal, but many resisting change
KABUL, Afghanistan -- One of this country's most powerful generals zipped across the sand flats in a black BMW on a recent afternoon, leading a convoy of slower-moving cars to the headquarters of the fledgling Afghan National Army.
When they reached the gates, the man in the BMW, Gen. Atiqullah Barialai, was greeted by soldiers shouting "Long life!" The men with him--most had ben named recently to senior posts in the Afghan Defense Ministry--hung back as Barialai strode forward to address a battalion about to set off on a combat mission.
Unlike his newly appointed companions, Barialai was removed recently from his job as deputy defense minister. Yet he still is treated like a star commander here.
Although the new defense officials walked beside him, it was Barialai who drew crowds of admiring officers and soldiers; although the new officials addressed the troops, it was Barialai's speech that prompted cheers.
In long-awaited reforms, Barialai and a handful of other senior defense officials were replaced or assigned to new posts. The upper rungs of the Defense Ministry, long dominated by ethnic Tajiks such as Barialai, now include representatives from the country's other major ethnic groups, including Pashtuns, the largest group in the country.
The changes were a precondition for the ambitious United Nations-sponsored disarmament drive that is seen as crucial to stabilizing Afghanistan. They also are critical to expanding the authority of the U.S.-backed Hamid Karzai government, which is struggling against continued factional fighting and a Taliban resurgence in the south and east.
Battle for influence
Yet Barialai's visit underscored the difficulty of redistributing power in Afghanistan, where past battles and powerful friends are greater guarantors of influence than the word of the central government.
The Afghan defense minister, Mohammed Fahim, is a Tajik. Like Barialai, he fought alongside resistance leader Ahmed Shah Massood, who later was slain, against the Soviets and then against the Pashtun-dominated Taliban. Massood's base was in the Panschir Valley north of Kabul, and many Panschiris hold key jobs in the Defense Ministry.
When U.S. air strikes forced the Taliban to flee Kabul in autumn 2001, thousands of fighters from Massood's Northern Alliance marched into the capital and seized control. Fahim has retained a tight grip on power and is believed to possess stockpiles of weapons and to command 100,000 militia soldiers, making him the most powerful man in the country. The new Afghan National Army, trained and funded by the U.S. and loyal to Karzai, has about 6,000 troops.
Standing in the white cafeteria at the national army headquarters, Barialai told about 1,400 officers and soldiers that the changes at the Defense Ministry were designed to make military policy as ethnically diverse and disciplined as the new army. Some factional commanders had said they would not put down their guns so long as the Defense Ministry was dominated by one ethnic group.
The reforms are largely a result of pressure from the U.S., the UN and other nations involved in the disarmament campaign. But now that they have been instituted, many are dissatisfied.
In an interview in his office, Barialai said ethnic diversity was the guiding force behind the new appointments, while quality and professionalism counted for less. Officials who lost their jobs will be given other government posts, including some in the powerful Intelligence and Interior Ministries, defense officials said. Barialai said Karzai wants to send him to Canada as the Afghan ambassador.
He acknowledged that the changes were necessary but said the new officials "have not been tested by us or our people." "If they don't do the job, there will be problems," Barialai said.
Several new appointees argued that the reforms don't go far enough. Leadership changes will achieve little if thousands of ministry employees and soldiers fail to obey the new bosses, they said. "Was it a complete remaking of the Ministry of Defense that will give everybody complete confidence? No," one Western diplomat said. "But was it a big step forward? Yes."
Instead of strengthening the government, the changes have in some ways highlighted Afghanistan's continued dependence on the U.S. and other nations, nearly two years after the installation of Karzai's government. Without outside observers to keep some members of the government in line, officials said, open factionalism would be revived.
"If the [international community] abandons us as before, that is a concern, and I cannot speculate on what will happen," said Gen. Baz Mohammed Jawahiri, a member of the minority Hazara ethnic group and new deputy defense minister. "The disarmament process cannot be enforced by the government of Karzai only."
The UN has responded cautiously to the reforms, saying it will wait to collect Afghan views before reacting publicly. The disarmament campaign, which was postponed until the changes could be completed, is expected to start next month. After more than two decades of fighting, Afghanistan is a repository of thousands of weapons, many of which are in the hands of private warlord armies, criminals and drug smugglers.
"We still have a lot of problems," one newly appointed defense official said. "To cut a tree takes half an hour, but to grow a tree takes 40 years. To destroy is very easy but to build takes a long time."
Choking off al-Qaeda's cash lifeline
Thursday, 2 October, 2003, 17:01 GMT 18:01 UK by Frank Gardner BBC Security correspondent
Some countries are accused of not co-operating with the US
In a quiet suburb of Stockholm, a secretive meeting is taking place behind closed doors.
From around the world, government experts have flown in to discuss how to close the loopholes in terrorist funding.
The delegates include security officials, bankers and financial investigators.
One of the key speakers is Juan Zarate, the US Deputy Assistant Secretary for Terrorist Financing.
He told me what they're up against.
"We clearly know that Al-Qaeda has used the formal financial system before, and they continue to do so.
"But we also do know that they have used underground financial networks and they have certainly corrupted charities around the world to both raise and move funds".
And here lies the problem - trying to regulate the murkiest corners of the world's financial system.
The US Treasury says more than 170 nations have ordered terrorist assets to be frozen.
Dozens of countries have set up Financial Intelligence Units to share information.
But not everyone agrees on how to implement the new measures, introduced after the attacks of 11 September.
Warning to the reluctant
That task falls largely to Patrick Moulette, the Executive Secretary of the FATF, the Financial Action Task Force.
"We have a duty towards the international community to come up with the right measures and its not always easy to agree with 30 plus countries because the measures are complex".
Those measures include an eight-point action plan drawn up by the FATF.
It requires countries to make financing terrorism a crime, for banks to know exactly who their customers are, and to report suspicious transactions immediately.
Well, that may sound like common sense.
But according to the FATF President, Claes Norgren, there are a number of countries that are still not cooperating.
"My message to the countries who would not take action in this, is that this is something that is problem to us all and you have to realise that if you don't take action you will suffer too."
Frighteningly cheap
Later, some of the world's leading financial 'spooks'- the men and women who work fulltime to try and choke off the funding still reaching the militants, relax over Swedish salmon in a restaurant.
I asked the US Treasury's Juan Zarate how much success he thinks they're having.
"We feel like we've been extremely successful.
"We've tightened the net around Al-Qaeda, we've cut off channels of funding, we've frozen more than 136 million dollars in terrorist related assets, identified and designated over 315 terrorist related individuals and entities, we've clearly deterred terrorist fundraising and funding."
Tracking terror funding through the banking system is one thing. But it can be much harder if it goes underground.
And of course, terrorism can be frighteningly cheap.
Al Qaeda continues to exploit international financial systems
The attacks of 11 September cost a tiny fraction of Osama Bin Laden's wealth.
Even Juan Zarate admits the financial clampdown won't stop the attacks.
"It will be very difficult to ever stop the singular terrorist attack, but what we can hope to do is stop the major attacks, to stop the major movement of funds and cut off the long-term ability of terrorists to attack western civilization".
So far, there has not been a repeat of anything on the scale of 9/11. But the Al-Qaeda movement is far from bankrupt and its followers do have endless patience.
The 'university of holy war'
Thursday, 2 October, 2003, 07:39 GMT 08:39 UK By Haroon Rashid BBC correspondent in North-West Frontier Province
Its students and principal call it the University of Jihad (Holy War).
Last week the religious seminary of Darul Uloom Haqqania in Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province turned out another class of young Pakistanis and Afghans ready to wage holy war against the enemies of their religion.
Among them was 15-year-old Afghan refugee, Javed Ullah.
"I wish to fight the infidels," he said as he left the seminary in Akora Khattak, 50 kilometres (31 miles) east of the provincial capital, Peshawar.
Javed is among 600 students who have completed studies in different fields over the past year.
I will dedicate my whole life for jihad. I will kill enemies of Islam
Wearing white turbans and dress, all the new graduates looked satisfied and seemed to brim with hope for a bright future.
"I want to go back and fight the Americans," Javed said wearing a garland. "I can't wait anymore."
His Pakistani classmates had a similar desire.
"I will dedicate my whole life for jihad. It is compulsory for Muslims. I will kill enemies of Islam," said student Minhaj Uddin.
Mullah Omar's words
The whole convocation was full of slogans in support of Afghanistan's ousted Taleban regime, al-Qaeda's leader Osama Bin Laden and holy war.
Students take a final oath at the graduation ceremony
Some of the banners adorning the seminary were decorated with pictures of Kalashnikov rifles and tanks.
In their speeches, teachers and religious scholars urged the students to put defending their faith before everything else.
"Being watchmen of your religion, you are naturally the first target of your enemies," said Maulana Sami ul-Haq, the principal of the seminary.
In the past, some Taleban officials, themselves graduates of the institution, have attended these convocations.
Even Taleban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar's messages have been read out.
The school's support for the Taleban has been no secret.
The principal previously sent a batch of 2,000 Afghan students back to their homeland to aid the then ruling Taleban in its fight against the warlords of the Northern Alliance.
TALEBAN ALUMNI
Amir Khan Muttaqi - information and culture minister
Abdul Latif Mansoor - agriculture minister
Maulvi Ahmad Jan - minister of mines and industries
Mullah Jalaludin Haqani - minister of frontier affairs
Maulvi Qalamudin - head of the religious police
Arifullah Arif - deputy foreign minister
Mullah Khairullah Khairkhwa - interior ministry
His words of advice for the Pakistani and Afghan students are now to wage holy war until the "evil force" is defeated.
"In the past, only conspiracies were hatched to end Islam, but now the enemy is in the battlefield challenging us," said Mr Sami.
"Islam, Muslim scholars and religious students were never under such a threat as today."
Such messages emanating from seminaries ring alarm bells in Western countries and among moderates in Pakistan.
The government of President Pervez Musharraf wants to turn the tide and promote liberalism but is finding it difficult to change things with the speed the international community wants.
North-West Frontier Province has many tribal areas that have historically been autonomous, governed by tribal leaders and their own laws.
It is inhabited mostly by the Pashtun, the same ethnic group that dominated the Taleban, and has always been affected directly by events across the long, porous border with Afghanistan.
Some observers say the bad effects of over two decades of war - religious extremism, gun-running and drugs - cannot quickly be removed.
Certainly, the government's efforts to change the curriculum in the religious schools have failed to make any impact so far.
While such efforts go on, fresh batches of volunteers ready to confront what they see as the enemies of their faith continue to graduate.
Team to excavate Afghan Buddhist ruins
KABUL (Kyodo) Japanese archaeologists plan to excavate a site in central Afghanistan that may have been an important center of Buddhism.
The dig will take place next spring at Kawfir Kowt in the Kharwar district of Lowghar Province, about 120 km southwest of Kabul.
Kazuya Yamauchi, chief researcher of the National Research Institute for Cultural Properties of Tokyo, will take part in excavation work at the Kawfir Kowt ruins.
Some experts believe the place may have developed as an important center for Buddhism after the famous pilgrim Xuanzang stopped there as he traveled along the Silk Road from India to China between 629 and 645.
Yamauchi believes Kawfir Kowt was the site that Xuanzang described as the city of Fupina in the state of Gurizistaana (which means "highlands" in Persian) in his chronicle "The Records of the Western Regions of the Great Tang Dynasty."
Yamauchi suspects Fupina was situated at Kharwar, elevation 2,500 meters.
Kawfir Kowt means the "land of pagans," indicating it was an area where non-Islamic people lived.
Kawfir Kowt bears the remains of a Buddhist temple and a Buddha statue. The wood used for the temple was from the fourth century, according to the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
Yamauchi said the ruins are impressive and could become a showcase of Afghanistan's Buddhist culture.
A hill in Kawfir Kowt also has what appears to be the ruins of a castle and traces of seemingly unauthorized excavations, which Yamauchi believes were the work of professionals.
Protecting Afghan antiquities is a major concern.
Many relics were destroyed over the years, particularly during the 1979-1988 war with the former Soviet Union, the oppressive rule of the Taliban, which made deliberate efforts to destroy them, and the recent U.S.-led antiterror campaign.
Smuggling of antiquities is meanwhile rampant.
President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan
Wednesday, 1 October, 2003, 19:08 GMT 20:08 UK BBC News
Afghan President Hamid Karzai answered your questions in a special edition of Talking Point on BBC News Online and BBC News Interactive as part of a series on Islam and the West.
A powerful Pashtun leader from the Taleban's former stronghold of Kandahar, President Hamid Karzai has led Afghanistan since December 2001 following the fall of the Islamic fundamentalist Taleban.
Since then the charismatic 44-year-old has carved out a high profile at home and abroad with a reputation as a shrewd statesman.
But infighting between local commanders over power and territory has become a striking feature of the post-Taleban period.
The president recently warned that an extra $15bn would be needed to help the country build its economy and begin generating its own revenues, as well as to fight the threat posed by former Taleban members.
What is the role of Islam in Afghanistan following the fall of the Taleban? What are the tasks ahead for the interim administration in order to successfully rebuild the country?
Transcript
Lyce Doucet:
Welcome to Talking Point, I'm Lyce Doucet. We're broadcasting on BBC World Television, BBC World Service on radio and BBC News Online on the internet. Today our special guest is President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan. He joins us here in Britain at the governing Labour Party's annual conference on the south coast of England, he's the guest speaker here.
Much has changed in Afghanistan since President Karzai came to power after the fall of the Taleban nearly two years ago. But in recent months there's been a resurgence in attacks by remnants of the Taleban. And some Afghans say their own lives really haven't improved much. President Karzai recently appealed for more international aid, for $15 billion more and more help to strengthen security across his country. He also joins us for our special series which brings together leaders and Muslims from all walks of life to discuss the changing relationship between the West and the Islamic world after the events of September 11 and the war in Iraq.
President Karzai welcome to Talking Point. We've received many calls and many e-mails from around the world, people who have questions for you. But first let me ask, you've been to the United States, you've been to Canada, here you are in Britain, your message is the same - Don't forget Afghanistan. Did you receive concrete pledges of aid?
Hamid Karzai:
Well I was very happy to receive support from President Bush, from Chancellor Schroeder, from President Mitterand and today from Prime Minister Blair and in Canada from the Canadian Prime Minister - Mr Chretien.
Lyce Doucet:
Moral support or actual .
Hamid Karzai:
Moral and also actual support in terms of ISAF .
Lyce Doucet:
The International Security Assistance Force, you've been asking for peacekeepers to be expanded outside of Kabul.
Hamid Karzai:
Exactly.
Lyce Doucet:
Is that going to happen?
Hamid Karzai:
That is going to happen I hope .
Lyce Doucet:
Definitely?
Hamid Karzai:
There's now a lot of talk about it, a lot of positive talk about it and I'm sure it will take place in the form of the PRTs - provincial reconstruction teams - that are going to the provinces or in the form of actual security provision for the people. To the extent that the help has come so far, we in Afghanistan are grateful for that all the time. But if there can be more of it Afghanistan will do better.
Lyce Doucet:
What about your appeals for aid nearly two years ago $4.5 billion were pledged at the Tokyo conference, now it's estimated that you need $20-30 billion over the next five years - are they responding?
Hamid Karzai:
Well the destruction of Afghanistan is such, they're not about to rebuild our lives and stand on our own feet and to be able to defend ourselves and to protect ourselves and to watch the borders and to fend off against terrorism, we need that sort of support in the longer term. It has to be a sustained programme from last year to today and from today for another four or five years. That sort of support is needed in order for Afghanistan to be able to rebuild its institutions - its army, police, judicial sector, a democratic system and eventually a state that can benefit from its own resources and its own economic activity.
Lyce Doucet:
Very big agenda and we have many people who want to ask you questions about it, so let's take the first caller on the line. This is Almay Gazhi [phon.] who's calling us from the United States. Almay welcome to Talking Point, what would you like to ask the President?
Almay Gazhi:
Yes, hi Mr Karzai. There is a general left feeling notion among the people here in the United States that the war in Iraq and Afghanistan are somehow connected. The politicians and the media are constantly putting Iraq and Afghanistan in the same category. It's very unfair for the Taleban situation to be confused with the Iraqi dilemma. It's very important to inform and educate, especially the American people, that the problem in Afghanistan is a problem for the whole world and cannot be ignored and needs to be fixed at any cost. Where the war in Iraq is an unpopular war created by a very few without the world's consent. I'm afraid that the growing opposition here in the US and international discontent, especially in the Muslim world, to the war in Iraq will once again force Afghanistan into isolation. Mr Karzai does this concern you at all?
Hamid Karzai:
This was a very, very, very good remark and I agree with you very much. The situation in Iraq and that in Afghanistan are two very different situations. Afghanistan is a case where progress has been achieved, Afghanistan's a case where there is [indistinct words] to international peace and security and if you do not handle this correctly, if you do not make Afghanistan stand on its own feet that threat might re-emerge. And you are right, I think we should make more and speak more that the world gets more informed about the differences in Iraq and Afghanistan for us and for the rest of the world.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you very much Almay for joining us from the United States. And President Karzai we've received an e-mail from someone who also lives in the United States and he wants to ask you whether you believe there was an increase in anti-American sentiment among the Afghans since the occupation of Iraq by the coalition forces?
Hamid Karzai:
The Afghan people are concerned mostly with their own lives. We have suffered for 30 years of unbelievable agony and tyranny. And we are concerned with making our own lives. Of course we're concerned with fellow Muslims in the rest of the world and the Afghan people would want for the Iraqis as they want for themselves - peace and security and a government of their own and self-determination. We support the tribes in the Iraqi people and the Afghan people, of course, would be happy to see Iraq do well.
Lyce Doucet:
Someone who asks another question, he was worrying that any anti-American sentiments could actually help in the resurgence of the Taleban.
Hamid Karzai:
That is not the case. In Afghanistan there's still massive support for the international forces present in Afghanistan. Just about three weeks ago myself and the rest of the National Security Council were talking to refugees and to officials for the repatriation and two of the refugees representatives told us that they would go back to their areas of original stay only if there is the national army for Afghanistan present there or else the international security forces of the coalition forces go and provide them with security. So that kind of feeling indicates that the Afghan people, very pragmatically though, are still considering the presence of the international forces as good for the country at this time.
Lyce Doucet:
Bagia Khan [phon.] is on the line here in London, England. Bagia what's your question for the President?
Bagia Khan:
Hi there Mr Karzai. I just was wondering if you feel sort of the way, myself and many of my own Muslim friends here in the UK feel that the Afghanistan issue's been sort of sidelined about the future security and stability in Afghanistan in the light of the Iraqi war, especially now that it seems to be the fact that all the reasons we were given for going to war with Iraq have now turned out to be - the majority which seem to be false?
Hamid Karzai:
Initially sir, I had that kind of feeling, I was afraid that Afghanistan would be forgotten because of the situation in Iraq and because of the operation there. Later on, after my visit to Washington and London and other capitals, I was given the assurance that that would not be the case. And this time in the trip to New York and today in London I was given a double reassurance that Afghanistan would remain to be focused on. And now $1.2 billion fresh assistance for Afghanistan and other governments will do the same. The German Chancellor, Chancellor Schroeder announced Afghanistan as a priority area for Germany. So that concern is now not very much there. But we should watch and not allow the world to forget us.
Lyce Doucet:
Bagia, you're pleased with that answer?
Bagia Khan:
Well sort of because I mean I remember quite clearly Jack Straw kind of pledging that the West would not desert and forget about Afghanistan like it did so many years ago when the Russians left and left a power vacuum. And so I just - obviously so many people in this country were against the war in Iraq and obviously around the world and so it would be a shame to see the commitment made to Iraq, which now we seem to be very much stuck in, to sort of embolden the suffering of the Afghan people who still don't have two years on the .
Hamid Karzai:
Exactly .
Bagia Khan:
.. that they were promised. And in taking that point forward, if I may, it kind of makes you wonder that if in two years we haven't been able to get stability that we were promised in Afghanistan, what hope is there really for Iraq in that respect as well?
Hamid Karzai:
Well there are two things here. First of all I hope the world has learned that abandoning Afghanistan, like they did when the Soviet's left, the way it cost them, the way it cost us in our country and the rest of the world would not be repeated and that must be lesson enough. Mankind learns from experience and that experience I hope will stay with the Western countries strongly. Secondly, with regard to Afghanistan we have still difficulties, the difficulties remain in two areas - continued terrorist activity in Afghanistan, especially coming from across our neighbourhood - and the internal armed groups and gangs that go and pillage homes and make life very difficult for people in Afghanistan. We are working on both the fronts. On the question of terrorism I'm in close contact with President Musharraf in Pakistan and with the government of Pakistan. So let's hope that we see a substantial lessening in the harassment of the Afghan peacemaking and reconstruction process. On the economic side though, Afghanistan is doing very well. We have good rains, we have snow, surplus crops, the economy's picking up, the reconstruction of highways across Afghanistan is going on, we had 30% economic growth last year, according to the IMF, and that's good enough for us. We hope to be able to do 20% this year and if this tend continues for another few years Afghanistan should be in good shape I hope.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you for joining us. A lot of people who e-mailed us, President Karzai, were worried about the resurgence of the Taleban. Idris Abdillahi Ibrahim from Somaliland asks you, he says: As widely reported the remnants of the Taleban are regrouping in the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan, as you know. How would you deal with the Taleban since he believes they enjoy the same support that you do among the Pashtun?
Hamid Karzai:
Well I would disagree slightly. First of all we don't know. If the people that are coming and attacking the road workers, burning schools for little girls and boys, killing aid workers are actually Taleban or even Afghans or not, we don't know where they come from. So the origin of that attack is a bit murky and we are looking into it to find out the roots of it. But probably the roots of those attacks were outside of Afghanistan, like they were when Afghanistan suffered. Secondly, if violence, extremism, and the work against Afghanistan has any place in the Afghan people the Taleban government and their friends in al-Qaeda would just be defeated in a matter of a month - the Americans only bombed Taleban positions, they did not send soldiers to chase them out, they were chased out by the Afghan people. Where I fought against them, that was precisely what happened. I never engaged in any military operation against them, when I moved from village to village the Taleban were not there, the people chased them out. So I believe in that.
Lyce Doucet:
We're going to take a caller now on the line from Namibia in Africa, Julius Kalimbo [phon.] joins us here on Talking Point. Julius what's your question for President Karzai?
Julius Kalimbo:
Yes good evening. First I have some suggestions. I have been monitoring the whole process since the war started in Afghanistan but I begin to believe that why Mr Karzai, if I can mention his name [indistinct words] why his excellency cannot most probably accommodate the Taleban in his government because if he goes now and then I believe the war will never stop. And if his process or his system of eliminating the Taleban continues then what then? Because it's like the Taleban has a majority in the country and if they got eliminated then it seems like the whole population is eliminated. So now my point is how does his excellence want to be remembered after his term of office? Do you want to be remembered as a person who was really there for the Afghanistan people? Or do you want to be remembered as the person who committed genocide in Afghanistan? Because the system of eliminating the people is a critical process you understand? And I believe if you accommodate those people in your government surely the peace and stability in the country would continue and the development of the country can then start. That's what I'm trying to say.
Hamid Karzai:
Good question, good question. I would certainly like to be remembered as a man who stood for Afghanistan and Afghan people. Nobody wants to eliminate the Taleban. I don't know, probably you've not heard my speeches and my remarks, for some of my remarks have got me into trouble as well with some people in my country. There are Taleban who are part of Afghanistan. Taleban is the student of the religious school, there are thousands of them, they are studying there. There are others who were part of their troops who have gone back and are staying in their villages. There were those in the leadership of the Taleban who are now staying back in their villages. We, the Afghan society, nobody has anything to do with them, they are part of our country, they are part of our blood, part of our society, I was with them in the beginning of the Taleban movement, I know them personally. We are against terrorism. Those few, very, very few, probably no more than 50 people who have been associated with terrorism and violence against the Afghan people that we cannot accept back. They're not in Afghanistan anymore, they have run away from our country, they're somewhere else. So with the larger part of the Taleban, who are several thousand people, who were soldiers, who were ordinary people, we have repeatedly asked for their safety and I will continue to ask for their safety and there are people that I know who are very good people and I would very much like them to be - to come back and be part of Afghanistan. I'm working for that. Your suggestion is a good one.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you Julius for joining us from Namibia. Many of our people who e-mailed us mentioned the issue of the Taleban but also of religion, we're putting a very special series on the BBC about Islam in politics and Raj Kumar, who lives in the United Kingdom, says: I've noticed a resurgence in fundamentalist Islam in Pakistan, in Iraq and in many other Arab countries. Is this an acceptable part of Muslim culture seeing as it is so widespread and how do you plan to fight extremist Islam?
Hamid Karzai:
Islam is Islam. Islam is a religion with a set of principles and a way of life, with a way of social behaviour. It has fundamentals, like any other religion. I'm a fundamentalist in Islam - I believe in the fundamentals of Islam, I believe in what Islam teaches me and how to practise that. It is not extremism. Islam is for peace, Islam is for social justice, Islam is for the good of humanity. Islam dreads - runs away from anarchy. In the time of the prophet Mohammed, peace be upon him, there is a saying attributed to the prophet, peace be upon him, that if a man goes to a place where there is no rule of law, he should run away from there because that means anarchy and there he will not be safe. So extremism is not part of Islam. Extremism has been developed, brought about as instrument of government policy by certain states. That's not the fault of Islam. Islam's turned against that. Islam has been used by those people to justify what they were doing to gain access to other people or to affect other people or to influence other lives, it's got nothing to do with Islam.
Lyce Doucet:
Well we have a caller now on the line from Sweden, we're joined by NK, N what's your question.
NK: Thank you. My question is what is the role of Islam in your government in terms of political legitimacy and judiciary in the sense according to [indistinct words], how were you able [indistinct word] the justice system in accordance with Islamic principles, rule of law, international standards and Afghan legal tradition - how will you combine all these elements? Do you have any morals [indistinct words]?
Hamid Karzai:
Thank you very much. We have an Afghan moral, we're a Muslim country and our constitution will be based on Islam and the principles of Islam. Our constitution will take everything into account but does not contradict the principles of Islam. Our constitution, the principle that you're working on clearly speaks of Afghanistan adherence to international humanitarian law, to international conventions and to the rule of law, it does not contradict Islam, it runs together with Islam. A notion has been created that probably thinks in Islam, stand against international humanitarian laws or other laws that are good for the humanity, Islam actually preaches you to do that. It guides you towards that direction. So we see no contradiction and Afghanistan will be in full observance of the laws that the rest of the international community follow and also in full observance of the Islamic principles - those go together, they don't go against each other.
Lyce Doucet:
If I could add that the draft of the constitution is now being made available and it should be approved in December but there is still a concern that there will be a battle about should there be Sharia law in your country, what kind of Islamic democratic state should it be, do you worry there will be these battles?
Hamid Karzai: It is natural to have discussions in any society that's making a new constitution, there will be ideas, there will be extents of ideas and I think the loya jirga, the grand council, will come out - nicely out of it.
Lyce Doucet:
But you're not too worried that there's .
Hamid Karzai:
I'm not worried no. . we've probably gone past that stage.
Lyce Doucet:
Because we received e-mails from many people who asked us about the issue of the role of Sharia law, Harm Tuenter who is in Apeldoorn in the Netherlands said: What can you tell us about the role of Islam Sharia in governing today's Afghanistan and what's the state's tolerance towards religious minorities? Is everybody free to practise his or her personal beliefs?
Hamid Karzai:
Yes absolutely. It's not the first time. It has been the case all along in Islam. And to add something to it - we sent 460,000 questionnaires to the Afghan people on the constitution, we have received back, so far, 85,000 questionnaires, maybe more by now because I've been away for 10 days, 17,000 verbal messages from the Afghan people, 6,000 letters. In those questionnaires, in the 85,000, the essence of them talks about the unity of the Afghan people, Islam as the religion of the country and social justice. And then it comes back to asking us to also provide protection and tolerance for other religions, Islam provides that, Islam protects that, there is no contradiction there.
Lyce Doucet:
Well President Karzai we're going to move more into squarely into politics now.
Hamid Karzai:
Sharia - I'd like to talk about Sharia. Sharia means the rule of law. In Islam Sharia's the rule of law, it has a set procedure. You have to provide in the society conditions for social justice, for better economy, for access of jobs and economic opportunity for all. And within that Sharia is applied.
Lyce Doucet:
We understand the draft constitution actually doesn't include Sharia law, it talks about an Islamic state but not Sharia .
Hamid Karzai:
It speaks for the principles of Islam. I'm trying to explain to the gentleman there as to what Sharia means, Sharia's nothing other than the rule of law, the rule of law's matured in your country, you have a tradition of law, you have a sense of law. Sharia is sense of law given to you by Islam trying to bring to you a society that one finds just, where justice is done, where violence has been prevented, where oppression is prevented, where people are given access to a just system under the rule of law.
Lyce Doucet:
Mr President there's just as many questions about politics. We've received an e-mail through the BBC's Persian Service from Mohammad Shoayib who lives in Herat in Afghanistan. He says: Don't you think that if - like many other Afghan leaders and commanders - you also ran a political or a military group or party it would be much easier for you to make decisions for the country?
Hamid Karzai:
If I have a political party?
Lyce Doucet:
Yes.
Hamid Karzai:
I don't think so. Afghanistan was destroyed, tormented, put through lots of suffering because of the bickering, because of the in-fighting, because of the political agendas of the parties that were not national. Afghanistan needs to have a day off on that. We have to build the Afghan society in the country, in the state, towards a future that is stable, peaceful, economically well off. And in that context develop political party law, which we have now developed, which will provide people with a platform to form political parties in which having an armed group or association with an armed group will be completely banned. The military, the army, in other institutions that are important for the state, will not be allowed to play or engage in politics or the political party staff members from them. I'm not personally inclined too much towards political parties, I think we have suffered a lot from them.
Lyce Doucet:
You won't lead one, Mr President, if you run for President next year in Afghanistan in the elections?
Hamid Karzai:
I don't know if I will lead a political party, but definitely a movement amongst the people.
Lyce Doucet:
Are you setting one up now? Preparing?
Hamid Karzai:
Yes.
Lyce Doucet:
So you will run?
Hamid Karzai:
Yes.
Lyce Doucet:
Well there you announced it now. Well we've got Fariq Sharasi [phon.] on the line from California, we know there's a big Afghan community there. Fariq Sharasi what's your question?
Fareed Shirzai:
Firstly Mr President thank you for taking my call. The question is why or for how long are you going to keep some of these known notorious warlords in the government while yourself cannot trust them, clearly indicated when you were choosing American bodyguards for yourself?
Hamid Karzai:
Well we have to progress gradually, we're not bringing a revolution in Afghanistan, we're bringing a gradual change in this country through peaceful means, through means that everybody will agree with. Afghanistan has gone through years of distrust and suffering and we must not repeat that, we must allow time in order for this country to go to a better, stronger, stable political future through legitimate activity. And we have done well so far and we should be cautious and try to take the whole society towards a civil form of politics, away from violence. And I have the patience and it has worked so far and I hope you will have that patience with us too.
Lyce Doucet:
Fariq Sharasi do you agree with that approach?
Fareed Shirzai:
Actually yes, well the question is I don't think in my idea that people who are - if you're trying to have a government for the people of Afghanistan a stable government is that a good way to have the notorious people of that country and the group in the structure?
Hamid Karzai:
We are preparing .
Fareed Shirzai:
. years since your government has been established.
Hamid Karzai:
Yes I got you I got you. We have done a lot since then and we will do more. But we are preparing a constitution. We are having a political party law now. And people have a choice to make now, they can form political parties and we'll be having elections in eight months time, we're working very hard for that. And in that election the Afghan people will have a chance to decide - those that they elect will be their representatives, those that they don't elect will have to wait for their turn. I believe the time for warlordism, for gun totting elements, rampaging villages, ruining lives in Afghanistan is gone, the Afghan people don't want that. But that has to take place through a peaceful coherent political transformation.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you Fariq Sharasi for joining us from California. We also have an e-mail from Vahid Ara who is in Mazar-e-Sharif in the north of Afghanistan, it was sent to us through the BBC's Persian Service. He says: Mr Karzai, you have on several times and today again expressed your anger and dissatisfaction about instability in Afghanistan and warned those who are responsible for it. What do you have to say now as the situation hasn't changed for the better? And of course he lives in Mazar-e-Sharif where we've seen some of the worst cases of fighting among the powerful commanders, known as the warlords.
Hamid Karzai:
He is right to be frustrated. I get frustrated too, I get very angry when I hear innocent lives still at the mercy of these people, of the armed groups. It really angers me, it really suffocates me. But then we have to think and find out the best ways of bringing safety to people's lives. This gentleman is in Mazar-e-Sharif, we sent a delegation, headed by [names] a few days ago and the delegation came back with sets of recommendations. On my return tomorrow to Kabul we'll work on the recommendations and implement them. And I hope that through those measures and other measures that we will follow we'll bring some safety to people there.
Lyce Doucet:
Well we're going to be joined now by Rosa Yari [phon.] who's a woman refugee from Ghazni in Afghanistan. Rosa welcome to Talking Point, what would you like to ask President Karzai?
Rosa Yari:
Thank you. My question is directly pointing to the current security issues in Afghanistan and although we have been pushing hard to stabilise security and peace in Afghanistan since the removal of the Taleban the evidence shows that your attempts have not been very effective. For instance there are people getting killed every day and the girls schools are being attacked continuously in different provinces in addition to the presence of the [indistinct words] for the past few months. I would like to know that, as the leader of the country and based on your experience for the past two years, what would be the best possible solution to overcome the current problems?
Hamid Karzai:
Well a very good question. This is something that has bothered all of us - the Afghan people - you, me and other Afghans, to see that we are still being attacked, to see that our country is still being violated by terrorism, by extremism, burning girls schools, killing people working on the highways, killing people working for the reconstruction of Afghanistan. I don't know if these people committing these crimes are actually Afghans. I tend to believe very strongly of my experience that much of that comes from outside of Afghanistan. We know examples of this and if you remember, if you were around Afghanistan, if you're in Europe, you must have heard one of my speeches a few weeks ago in a mosque in which I addressed some of the Pakistani individuals who are calling themselves clergy, Olamah, and I gave examples of how some of them were sending young Afghan men - preaching to them - giving them a little money to go and kill road workers. Now this is a problem that Afghanistan has to handle in an international manner, we have to have the help from the United States and the rest of Europe, we have to have help from Pakistan - I've spoken with Pakistani President Musharraf about this and we have had promises. I'm waiting for results on this. I don't see this as an internal problem, ma'am, my sister, I see this as an external problem. There are other problems as well, internal difficulties with warlords and gangs, they're also bothering the Afghan people, Afghan lives, that too is another concern that we have and we are taking steps, they are painful steps, they require time and patience and that we should have.
Lyce Doucet:
Rosa are you satisfied with the President's response, his approach?
Rosa Yari:
Yes, thank you.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you very much for joining us. We're going to take a caller now from Canada, from Toronto, Paul Connor joins us, Paul Connor go ahead.
Paul Connor:
Yes thank you. Mr President it seems that your government is going to have some difficulty getting past the objection of the citizens in your country to their armed regional peace and I'm wondering how your government intends to secure countrywide legitimacy after the troops of Canada and NATO go home?
Hamid Karzai:
We think that the international community should stay with Afghanistan till the day that Afghanistan stands on its own feet, till the day that Afghanistan develops its own security institutions - the army, the police, the judiciary. Till the day that Afghanistan begins to be able to protect its own borders, to provide security for its citizens. It will take some time. Till then the international community I hope will stay with us, should stay with us, for the interest of Afghanistan and the wider world. There is no short cut there, there is no other answer there, the international community should stay with us and together we should make life better for the Afghan people and by consequence for the rest of the world.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you Paul Connor. If I could ask you, you were just in Canada, did the leadership of Canada say they will stay with Afghanistan, the troops will remain there?
Hamid Karzai:
The Prime Minister of Canada, Mr Chretien, told me in clear words that Canada will stay for 12 months.
Lyce Doucet:
And you asked for them to stay longer?
Hamid Karzai:
Yes I did and beyond 12 months they would give it consideration, hopefully positive consideration. I am having better hopes now for that.
Lyce Doucet:
You're getting lots of promises but you have to wait and see whether they're going to fill them.
Hamid Karzai:
Well we'll keep asking.
Lyce Doucet:
Well someone else wants to ask you a question. We're joined now from El Salvador by Roberto Evenes [phon.], Roberto what's your question?
Roberto Ibanez:
My question is are the Afghan people ready to live without the American army?
Hamid Karzai:
The Afghans are very much ready to live without the American army, without all other armies that are now helping Afghanistan. There are over 40 countries helping in Afghanistan, 29 with the International Security Assistance Force and lots of other countries in the form of the coalition against terrorism. But the question is can we afford to live without them? No we cannot afford to live without them right now. And when the time comes for us to stand on our own feet we'll be very happy to protect our country and our citizens with our own institutions.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you Roberto. We're going to go north again on to the United States and we're joined by Erik Cooke in Washington DC, Eric go ahead.
Erik Cooke:
Good afternoon Mr President. Do you feel that you have enough support in particular from the US government for you to exercise control over the entire country?
Hamid Karzai:
I have support enough from the US government and if I feel that the support is not enough I will speak about it, I will tell President Bush and I will talk about it. But at this point the support is good enough, I have the assurances. I just hope that Afghanistan will receive a lot more in reconstruction assistance which is vital for our economy to begin to live off its own development.
Lyce Doucet:
And Erik do you believe that the people of the United States still worry about Afghanistan, still care about it?
Erik Cooke:
Well I think that's why I asked the question because in our media today it seems as though we're focused so much on Iraq and we have no indication from - it seems to me from the Afghanistani people as to whether or not they feel that they're getting enough of the pie, whether we've committed enough resources to them.
Hamid Karzai:
Well there has been the commitment of resources. President Bush announced a few days ago in New York in the UN $1.2 billion for Afghanistan. If you're asking me if I'm satisfied with that I would say yes, we are grateful that the world is helping us. But if you ask me if I need more, I will say, yes I need more, the country needs more. And as far as the media is concerned it doesn't focus on Afghanistan now as much as it does on Iraq because Afghanistan is a relatively successful case, there is a political process going on there, there isn't a crisis that would warrant media's stronger attention. I hope they did focus more on the achievements in Afghanistan and highlighted that to the people of the United States for them to learn off it and to provide more assistance and attention. They've been kind to us already.
Lyce Doucet:
You're being very diplomatic President Karzai. It doesn't make you angry that of the $87 billion that President Bush has asked for only $1.2 billion goes for aid to Afghanistan? In Afghanistan and Iraq there are the same number of people but Afghanistan is getting 10% of what Iraq is getting.
Hamid Karzai:
Well I mentioned earlier if I get more money for reconstruction I'll be happy.
Lyce Doucet:
But do you warn the United States, other Western governments that there's a consequence - did you give those warnings?
Hamid Karzai:
Yes.
Lyce Doucet:
And they responded positively.
Hamid Karzai:
Yes, we will push them.
Lyce Doucet: Well some of the other issues that people have been calling us and e-mailing us about is about relations with your neighbours and you talk about this a lot. Swapnil in India says: Mr President are you serious about a long term relationship with your ancient neighbour India? And there are many questions about Pakistan. Hamid Khan in Islamabad said: Mr Karzai why are you making Pakistan a scapegoat for your incompetence regarding the law and order situation in Afghanistan?
Hamid Karzai:
With regard to the question on India, India is a neighbour of Afghanistan, India has been helping us, we would definitely want India to have good relations with Afghanistan, Afghanistan want to have good relations with India, lots of trade relations and it's welcome, definitely we'll do that. With regard to Pakistan, Pakistan is a country that has given refuge to us for so many years for millions of our people and that refuge has been very warmly, very brotherly, very sisterly - for which we will be grateful eternally, there's no second word there, we're very grateful to Pakistan for what they have done for us. With regard to terrorism and extremism, Mr Hamid Khan should know that really that thing should not arise in Afghanistan, it came during the years of our fight against the Soviets and it came from Pakistan with the Taleban and al-Qaeda and all that, they had access to Afghanistan through that territory. We're not trying to blame Pakistan, we're just asking our brothers there in Pakistan, the government there, to help us resolve this thing for the good of all of us. And as far as the competence of the Afghan government is concerned, it's the government that has taken power after 30 years of destruction and war, after having no army, no police, nothing, and what we have done, as a matter of fact surprises me that we have done what we have done.
Lyce Doucet:
Well let's go back to the issue of relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan because we have JB who's on the line from Karachi in Pakistan. Mr B what would you like to ask about?
JB:
Good evening Mr President. My question is to you that you claim that you have good relations with Islamabad but here we believe that there is an exchange of fire between part of one [indistinct] forces after every few days. [Indistinct] you recently have said that you and your minister have several times claimed that Pakistan is still backing Taleban forces. Do you think that these are the sign of good relations? Thank you.
Hamid Karzai:
Well we have brotherly relations, we cannot do without each other, the two countries depend on each other, strongly, there's a very strong interdependence between the two countries. By reasons of history, by reasons of ethnicity, by reasons of relationships from the past 30 years. There are problems as well. The problems are the continuation of extremist activity, the continuation of terrorist activity in Afghanistan. We're not trying to blame the Pakistani people, they are not to blame, they have nothing to do with it, they have all the good will for Afghanistan and they showed it when we were there as refugees - millions of us - we have only kindness for the people of Pakistan, only generosity from the people of Pakistan. When we say enemies we mean a few people, probably 40 or 50 people, who have agendas that are against Pakistan as well, that are against the people of Pakistan as well.
Lyce Doucet:
Who do you blame then if it's not the people, who do you hold responsible then?
Hamid Karzai:
Enemies, part of the political party structures there .
Lyce Doucet:
Politicians . is it military intelligence, is it the government?
Hamid Karzai:
All those elements who benefit from association with extremists. And then other people.
Lyce Doucet:
Thank you for joining us from Karachi. Now you mentioned in your speech to the UN General Assembly about your concern about the religious schools in Pakistan and you actually said that you felt that Pakistan was responsible for the rise of Talebanism and you brought that up with George W. Bush, what will be done, you've talked about this for months?
Hamid Karzai: I want action there.
Lyce Doucet:
What have you asked for specifically?
Hamid Karzai:
Action.
Lyce Doucet:
You want the . closed down.
Hamid Karzai:
Military action, close them down, take them out and let Afghanistan live in peace.
Lyce Doucet:
Pakistan says that the United States says it's happy with what Pakistan is doing, it doesn't hold the Pakistan government responsible, is that what you heard?
Hamid Karzai:
We would like to have more from our brotherly government in Pakistan.
Lyce Doucet:
Such as?
Hamid Karzai:
Such as curbing extremist violence of Afghan territory, cross border activities, people coming to our country and hurting. That must stop. And preaching against Afghanistan in places disguised as madrasa must stop. Training in those places disguised as madrasas must stop. People disguising themselves as preachers must be arrested and stopped from trying to train young innocent Afghans and giving them money, using their poverty, their vulnerability, to turn them into enemies against our country.
Lyce Doucet:
Do you have a commitment from Islamabad, a recognition, do they agree with you and they will do something about it?
Hamid Karzai:
I have spoken with President Musharraf, I'm waiting for results and I will speak to them again.
Lyce Doucet:
Do you fear that this resurgence of the Taleban is such that it could actually reverse whatever has been achieved over the past two years?
Hamid Karzai:
No, no, no, no. The people of Afghanistan are strongly for a better life, they cannot allow the life of the Afghan people to go back to that trade of extreme suffering, no way, we will not allow that.
Lyce Doucet:
Well I'm sure the Afghans listening and watching this programme will certainly agree with that. And I'm afraid that that's all the time we have for today. Our special guest thanks to you President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan and our thanks to everyone who's taken part in the programme either through e-mails or telephone calls. Don't forget you can keep sending us your e-mails to talkingpoint@bbc.co.uk. You can also visit our website on Islam in the West at www.bbcnews.com/islam. And you can watch or listen to this programme. Our guest on Talking Point next week is the Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohamad. But for now from this edition with Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan at the British Labour Party Conference here in Bournemouth in England, from me, Lyce Doucet, and the rest of the team goodbye.
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